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NISHITBASSIST
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Which Mini Midi Keyboard are compatible with Caustic?

Ok i think now i gotta buy these toy(after the huge announcements and mouth watering things Rej described)!!!

Planning to buy a new Mini Midi keyboard controller for using with Caustic! Could you guys suggest which one are compatible and which ones you are using(if any)!

I am using Samsung galaxy tab2, Jellybean so suggestions welcomed! 

coollaugh

 

skarabee
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Joined: 05/15/2012 - 07:52
Any standard midi /usb

Any standard midi /usb keyboard should work. I tried succesfully with Evolution MK25, M-Audio 61, Behringer UMX610 (better and cheaper than M-Audio)

You also have Korg Nanokey, but the keys are very little. You should choose a keyboard with some assignable knobs or fader, and pitchbend /modwheel, as I guess we will have midi control later on Caustic. 

If you want a 25 keys, I suggest Behringer UMX250: 8 knobs and 10 switches, pitch, modwheel, and you get an UCA 222 USB/audio converter for free.

Or Alesis QX25: 8 knobs and 4 pads, but no audio/usb.

DanSeb
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Joined: 11/08/2012 - 07:06
I also started looking into

I also started looking into small midi keyboards after yesterdays announcement!

I was wondering how small you can get them, and the Akai LPK25 was about the smallest I could find (keys only), but then I noticed it was USB powered only, I'm guessing that would be a big drain on my Nexus 7? Or possibly not work at all?

However, that Behringer UMX250 which Skarabee posted looks amazing, I may well have to consider buying one of those instead! Very affordable too, for all the features it has

Pan65
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Joined: 12/02/2012 - 12:04
I bougth a “Miditech i2

I bougth a “Miditech i2 control 25”, a relatively cheap controller with pitchbend, modwheel, 8 knobs, velocity sensitive and weighted full-size keys. The knobs are progamable so you can use them with any hardware or software. I did chose the smaller one (25 keys) to fit on my desk and for portability reasons but I regret I didn’t chose a bigger one, two octaves limit makes it hard to play. But I mainly use it to test chords and melodies so I’m quite pleased with it, and I can always hook up my M1 for more advanced usage.

skarabee
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Joined: 05/15/2012 - 07:52
Good to know about the

Good to know about the Miditech. I saw them too and was tempted, but I did purchase the Behringer for the UCA222, wich is recognized by my tablet. The old Evolution I have is a cool keyboard too, and solid as a rock. Knob and switch are assignable and the keybord is fine to play, with several velocity response curves. (same for the Behringer I think)

Akai and Korg are very small, too small for my old fingers ;-). And they have no controllers. They fit well for a mobile usage, but at home I prefer standard keys.

I also have too small controllers, Korg nanokontrol and Akai LPD8. Both are working on android. The LPD8 willl be soon used on stage with Caustic 2.1 custom midi version. (he he, collector now!)

I wil test to use 2 or more controllers with a USB hub on my tab, just curious...

Adrian King
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Joined: 01/11/2013 - 02:55
I am thinking of getting one

I am thinking of getting one too, and I am in the same shoes as you because I also use a Samsung Gtab 2 with jellybeen OS cheeky Had  a look at some of the ones that have been mentioned in this thread, they look very appealing. A small one is probably best, but the standard key size is what I am most familear with as a keyboardist.

pablo64
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Joined: 09/20/2012 - 07:17
@DanSeb

@DanSeb

As far as I know, if a controller keyboard is only USB powered you just need to get yourself a powered USB hub and it will take power from that instead of  your tablet. Give it a try!

Have you looked at the Akai MPK mini? That might suit you. http://www.akaipro.com/mpkmini

Pan65
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Joined: 12/02/2012 - 12:04
I tied that and it didn’t

I tied that and it didn’t work for me, but my controller can run on batteries to (or AC adapter).

FPC
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Joined: 06/13/2012 - 15:29
I can confirm that the Korg

I can confirm that the Korg Nanokey works perfectly with a Nexus 7 if anyone is interested. Takes its power from the tablet, battery life is OK.

James
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Joined: 01/21/2013 - 07:09
M-Audio Oxygen 25 - 3rd

M-Audio Oxygen 25 - 3rd Generation looks interesting - 8 assignable knobs and 25 keys for about 2/3 of the Behringer one. No idea on quality though.

Oleg
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Joined: 07/13/2013 - 14:11
Friend, it is simple and

Friend, it is simple and complex at the same time the question ...

For what purpose, that is the style of music you need a midi keyboard? If you play minimal techno, then you have enough keyboard with 1-2-3 maximum octaves

If you play dubstep and planning to create live performances you'll like keyboard controllers with effects (cutoff resonance and etc filters ) and pads ( drum / samplers - controllers )

But, if you planning to play music like a trance / uplifting with serious parties of strings or piano (based "near" on classical european music of european musicians) , buy a keyboard with 4 octaves minimum. 

 
P.S. I bought a (it seems) chinese CME U-key (white), the main reasons were 1) turn off dynamic keys (fixed 80 / 100 Volume), 2) soft keys, like the classic synthesizers 80's Roland and Yamaha 3) built-in GM sounds
 
P.P.S. But I do not recommend m-audio, I had key rig 49 keyboard, was not very satisfied, very hard keys for me, but not such as real piano with heavy keys
Rej - Dev
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Here's one someone asked me

Here's one someone asked me about the other day. Looks really nice (mini keys though)

http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/products/MiniLab/intro.html

James
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Joined: 01/21/2013 - 07:09
Ooh, that does look pretty

Ooh, that does look pretty sexy. A good compromise if you want a keyboard and a controller. 

skarabee
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I don't know about the 3rd

I don't know about the 3rd generation, but my first USB keyboard was the Keystudio 49i. At this time, I was thinking that this was a better choice about overall quality compared to Behringer/Alesis. I don't use it anymore. Bad sensitive keys, you have to hammer like my drummer to get the higher velocity, and the curve is not very smooth. It jumps to hard from pp to fff. The painted plastic is now completly faded and scratched, and it didn't leave the studio, expect for 2/3 gigs. And for the audio part, the drivers are just crap, at least for PC. The smallest buffer value available is 256, and the overall latency exceed 15 ms. I hope the new versions are better, but I doubt, as I see the Oxygen mkIII only compatible with XP/vista 32 :-(

For small keys, the miditech GarageKeys seems to be a good choice. 25 keys, 8 pads, 4 knobs, 4 faders.

Oleg
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PC Mini keyb= )

 

Sorry for Off top = )

NISHITBASSIST
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Joined: 06/21/2013 - 06:16
Well i think i came across 2

Well i think i came across 2 not exactly mini but i think 49 keys might be preferable, as i saw in videos about the 25 key and as pan said 2 octaves would be difficult to play!! But dont know just guessing. Controller with appropriate sensitivity would be perfect for me!

1.) Samson grand 49 : looks good!

2.) M audio keyrig 49 : But Oleg discards it! 

Apart from that M audio axiom air 32 seems pretty interesting!

@Oleg Thanks but cutting the story short at the moment getting a Mini/keyboard controller would be best for me.

P.S Now i am getting more confused!!! 

 

NISHITBASSIST
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yeah i saw that and that

yeah i saw that and that looks good but then i think it will be a dilemma to choose between oxygen 25 and axiom air 32!!!

NISHITBASSIST
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That looks amazing too apart

That looks amazing too apart from that they are giving an Analog lab software along with it(contains 5000 sounds) thats cool!

Only thing i am concerened is 25 keys!

 

skarabee
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Joined: 05/15/2012 - 07:52
I agree with Oleg concerning

I agree with Oleg concerning the M-Audio, and M-Audio keyboards in general. 

+1 for the Arturia. If you need bigger model, look at the Keylab49 or 61. Pads, knobs, fader, all is here. (and it's french....wink)

DanSeb
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Joined: 11/08/2012 - 07:06
Thanks for the info Pablo64,

Thanks for the info Pablo64, hadn't thought of using a hub, although judging by Pan65's reply I'm thinking one with batteries or a power adaptor would be a safer bet. I did see the MPK mini, but it seems a shame you don't get pitch bend with that one.

I'm torn between getting something super-compact, and getting something with lots of additional controllers on it. I think the Behringer U-Control UMX250 is in the lead for me right now!

There's an article on MusicRadar on budget midi controllers if anyone's interested:

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/the-8-best-budget-midi-controller-keyboards-565848/1

 

NISHITBASSIST
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Joined: 06/21/2013 - 06:16
Ok WOW Arthuria and Miditech

Ok WOW Arthuria and Miditech keyboards arent available in India! I dnt know what would it cost me if i import it or get it from ebay(international)! WOW

Luckily Alesis Qx25 which skarabee suggested is available

 

NISHITBASSIST
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torn between something super

torn between something super compact and something with additional controllers on it

Exactly i am also in it apart from that i think i might have to adjust somewhere between 32 key or 25...lolblush

NISHITBASSIST
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is that one which is shown in

is that one which is shown in caustic tutorial? mpk?

Pan65
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Joined: 12/02/2012 - 12:04
Well its not an easy pick, it

Well its not an easy pick, it needs to fit both your needs and wallet. Here’s a few thing to look out for…

Keysize:

If you’ve been playing keyboards before and are used to full sized keys then that’s what you need. Small keys feels weird to play on IMO but if you got no experience at all you will probably get along with small keys.

Power:

The unit should get its power from other sourses than USB. Note that you can’t charge your Android device when the keyboard is connected so you’ll be drained in no time if the keyboard needs power from it.

Knobs/Sliders:

If you do a lot of automation or make presets you will find controllers very useful. You will be more precise and it feels more natural to. Pads are nice if you like to tap in your drums/samples in realtime, but you can do this from the keyboard as well.

Pichbend/Modwheel:

IMO this is a must have. A small joystick might do but I prefer wheels with an amount of resistance for the feel. I’ve seen solutions with buttons to but I don’t know how it feels to play with those.

Octaves:

For testing 3 note chords and simple melodies two octaves will do. If you like to add a bass note for your chords you need at least three octaves. Most (if not all) of these keyboards can transpose the keys so you will be able to play all notes even on a small one.

Programming:

Most software’s have a learn function so this is not that important but if you think you’re gonna control hardware you need to be able to program the functions you need. On my unit I can set the knobs to whatever CC function I want. Do you need it for Caustic? That depends on how Rej codes his knobs, if he hard code them you will need this function but if he provides a learn function you don’t need it.

Overall Size and weight:

If you think you will carry it around you obviously want a small and light one, otherwise it doesn’t matter much.

 

Hope this will be of some help for you. Read the specifications, look at pictures and read some reviews. You may find some reviews on YouTube to.

DanSeb
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Thanks for providing all that

Thanks for providing all that info Pan65! After researching various options all morning, I've decided to get the same model as you - the 'Miditech i2-Control 25'

I can get it for around 2/3 of the price of the Behringer UMX250, and seems to have a very similar feature set, including power adaptor & battery operation.

I already have a full-size 61key Roland Midi keyboard upstairs, so I'll be buying the Miditech i2-Control 25 for its compact size & portability, and of course the ability to connect to Caustic!

Oleg
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+ 1 Pan65  

+ 1 Pan65

 

AmeriZealander
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Joined: 09/26/2012 - 00:27
Alternatively you could get a

Alternatively you could get a cheap keyboard that has analogue midi. I picked up a Casio CTK-700 and a Midi to USB Converter for $26 total. 6 Octaves and I can jam/learn how to play on it without hooking it up to anything. Works perfect with Caustic on Windows, but I haven't go it to register properly on my Kindle. I blame that on the custom ROM / Loose micro USB port though.

Not necessarily a mini keyboard, but still portable. I gues...

- AmeriZealander

http://androidmusicproject.wordpress.com/

kylewalz
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Joined: 06/30/2013 - 13:07
I bought an Arturia KeyLab 49

I bought an Arturia KeyLab 49 and couldn't get it to work with a Galaxy Tab 2 10 inch.  

NISHITBASSIST
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Joined: 06/21/2013 - 06:16
@kylewalz i was planning to

@kylewalz i was planning to buy arturia but unavailable in my country,,,,dont know what would be the problem in your case as i havent connected any keyboard yet with my tablet...maybe someone would answer it soon....which brings me to ask another question :

 

Does any usb keyboard will work in Caustic i mean not mini but say standard 49 or 61 keys usb midi controller will work? has anyone tried it?

moss
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Joined: 12/21/2012 - 07:54
You need to make sure that

You need to make sure that the USB keyboard is class complient, which means I does not require vendor specific USB drivers.

Also you need an OTG cable to adapt the USB cable. Additionally your device needs to support OTG mode which not all do. E.g. http://www.amazon.com/IVSO%C2%AE-Nexus-Tablet-Micro-Cable/dp/B00932N46S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1376046325&sr=8-3&keywords=USB+OTG

For example I connected successfully an Arturia minibrute via an OTG cable to my Nexus 7.

Retali8
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Joined: 09/15/2013 - 02:45
Hello,

Hello,

Will be a bit ot here, but whatever.

Since it's my first posting, let me stress at first that You are a total godsend, Rej, and thank You for an awesome app.

I'm coming out of a VST & ASIO Windows world and I'm a heavy user of Synapse Audio Orion Platinum. I took a look at Android music app world only because of Xperia Tablet Z I bought and was delighted to find there is Caustic, which is pretty much like OP and Propellerheads Reason combined (preserving the right proportions).  

Buying a midi keyboard seems reasonable except Android engine can't provide a decent latency values for playing live.

I saw and read some discussions You led with Android devs, pointing that 300 ms latency is not really suitable for live play. I'd say a tough mission awaits You as I can see in Google's behaviour the same patterns we Windows users went through some solid years ago. So here's a bit of history why Windows is a perfect music production environment just now (and I'm on Win XP, others are fine too). 

Microsoft used to think that their Directx and multimedia drivers were just fine for computer musicians. While playing virtual instruments, these drivers produced a lag that's just comparable to Android nowadays, except Android is here today, and I'm talking about stuff that happened like 13 years ago! Things changed radically when a German music software development company named Steinberg came up with so called ASIO drivers. In fact, Steinberg did all the work Microsoft should have done (Steinberg was interested in developing VST concept - they were major VST and VSTi sellers - and that could have only be achieved with latency free drivers). ASIO became industry standard. In fact, today there is a site http://www.asio4all.com/, that provides universal ASIO drivers for any soundcard, like built - in laptop interfaces, allowing users to play live any virtual synth they can run on their machines.

Steinberg had an American competitior, named Cakewalk (creators of Sonar DAW), who thought it was possible to cooperate with Microsoft on improving the native Windows multimedia drivers. After some years of hard work they succeeded, and so the WDM drivers were born. Except ASIO was so popular at this very moment, that nobody seemed to really care.

Seems like same thing will happen in Android world: a professional audio company will do the system designer's job:

http://www.sonomawireworks.com/pr/android-low-latency-audio-solution.php

However, I can see it takes years to implement such technology (licensing, decision process etc). All I say is that apparently it's really possible to play Caustic synths with unnoticable latency.

Let me just tell You that Caustic synths all scream to be played on Xperia T Z :)

Best regards 

Jason
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Joined: 03/23/2012 - 21:32
Just to throw it out there,

Just to throw it out there, as a keyboardist for many years... Dont expect superb keyboard handling performance from most of these little controllers, even full sized keys..... They are small and compact, yes, but they also habe short keybed designs that for some players will hinder your performance .... M-Audio is an example of such designs.

Not to knock these controllers, but buyer beware..... If you can, try before you buy...

Just my $.02...

mrgum6y
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Joined: 09/18/2013 - 15:49
Xperia Z + MPK mini = no audio

Hi,

can someone please cofirm that midi keyboard support is how it shoudl be in the RC1.

I have unlock key, Sony Xperia Z and Akai MPK mini.

Load Caustic first, midi enabled in program, plug in and allow access.

This results in the midi input working and lighting up the input lights and the screen keyboard, but no audio output it heard.

Any other Xperia users workign OK? Am i doing anythign obviously stupid>

MG

 

Rej - Dev
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Which machine are you trying

Which machine are you trying it with?

If you're using PCMSynth, have you got a preset loaded?

mrgum6y
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Joined: 09/18/2013 - 15:49
Yeah, tried loading preset

Yeah, tried loading preset before and after pluging in keyboard.

As i say the caustic onscreen keyboards lights up fine.

When it fails, i unplug keyboard, caustic thinks about it for a bit then audio output returns.

Thanks Rej.

Pan65
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Joined: 12/02/2012 - 12:04
My device go in to silent

My device go in to silent mode when I connect my controller. The work around is simply to turn thelevel up again. I don't know if this is a common behavior for android devices but try it, you might have the same issue.

mrgum6y
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Thanks for the reply.

Thanks for the reply.

Is that by machine, or the mixer, or the master output?

Ill try all of them again tonight.

 Is there a little mute button ive missed all these months?

 

MG

Pan65
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Joined: 12/02/2012 - 12:04
No it is the android device

No it is the android device output that goes silent. Just turn up the level on your device and the sound will be back. I don’t know why this happens on my device but maybe android think it is a audio device and try to route the sound through it, when I connect my controller to my laptop it is recognized as a audio device anyway. It may be so that the controller presents itself that way for some reason, I got a “Miditech I2 Controll 25”.

prgrss
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Joined: 11/27/2013 - 03:33
Hi!

Hi!

I have Sony Xperia Tablet Z and Icon iKey (25keys), the keys did not work with caustic (or with any synth program). but they work with my pc.

Planning to buy a small keyboard that works well with Caustic or some other program.

Rej - Dev
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There's a disturbing trend

There's a disturbing trend with Sony Experia devices not working with MIDI over USB...

Jason
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FWIW:
prgrss
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Joined: 11/27/2013 - 03:33
.. in other words you are

.. in other words you are saying that even if I bought "korg nano key" it wouldn't work with my Sony experia T Z?

Now I've also tried the ICON iKey with my HTC Desire Z with the same result.. nothing. Both of the devices power up the device, but thats all.

 

Rej - Dev
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Joined: 12/18/2011 - 15:52
I'm saying I've had about a

I'm saying I've had about a dozen reports from people asking why their keyboard doesn't work and most of them were on Sony Experia phones. I don't have one myself so I can't take it any further than reporting what I've heard.

 

I'm pretty certain the DesireZ doesn't support USB host mode, that was after its time. maybe with from some ROM tricks.

prgrss
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Joined: 11/27/2013 - 03:33
Yeah.. For test purposes I

Yeah.. For test purposes I ordered the Korg nano.. because in this thread someone said it will work. I will report if it works (I truly hope it will).

Desire Z is too old, I know.. I was goingo to buy new a phone, but I was thinking Sony..  ouch. :D

btw, on ICON website they talk only about mac -products, so I guess there is no support for android anyway...

 

 

Rej - Dev
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A lot of manufacturers

A lot of manufacturers hesitate to claim Android compatibility because there are too many factors involved. They probably don't want to deal with the flood of emails from people with issues.

Truth is, if the device is recent enough, runs Android 3.1 or greater and fully supports USB host mode then it should work with any controller that works on iOS. But don't take that as a promise from my either wink

prgrss
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Confirmed: Korg nano works

Confirmed: Korg nano works with Sony X T Z !!

Although Caustic 3 is a bit laggy with Z T Z, I'm happy to have actual keyboard for testing some ideas with the actual sounds..

For smoother playing there are simple synths available for android, so that is no problem.

Ash
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Joined: 02/15/2014 - 01:48
The Arturias do not work with

The Arturias do not work with Caustic 3 on Android.

I tried the Analog Lab and the Mini Lab.  Neither worked with my Motorola Xoom.

Confirmed to work with the Xoom:

M-Audio O2, Novation SL MK II, Akai MPK Mini

 ...                  ...

 

paulovski
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Joined: 09/19/2012 - 06:13
I picked up a powered OTG

I picked up a powered OTG cable recently. I couldn't get it to work at first. It only cost me 60p so I wasn't too concerned. Then I changed the order I plugged things in and plugged the power supply in last. It's been fine ever since.

ian
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Joined: 02/13/2014 - 21:23
To summerize for anyone on

To summerize for anyone on here still confused, like Rej said, the three things you need to look for are that the midi controller is compliant, that you are running 3.1 or greater and that your device can host USB OTG.

As for android latency, I posted a thread about it already but downloading a memory boost-ram optimizer really helps. I currently run two, master clean and memory boost ram optimizer, and i ve noticed a great improvement. By no means perfect, however.

jaykayenn
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Joined: 12/17/2012 - 00:03
For the record, I use the

For the record, I use the following on my Nexus 7 (1st gen) just fine:

- KORG Nanokey

- Samson Carbon 49 (full-sized keys)

Both powered by the Nexus itself. Battery life doesn't seem to be an issue. Latency seems the same whether I play the on screen keyboard or external MIDI (ie. noticeable, but tolerable). 

teknobat
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Joined: 09/03/2013 - 05:04
korg microkey

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