Count me in to:-)
Wow, exciting times for Caustic lovers! Not only a major Caustic update on the horizon but news that Caustic Live is also almost ready for release. Outstanding work guys!
1) What extra CPU demands are the new synths likely to make on our hardware? Obviously the ability to use up to 14 machines in a single project is bound to take it's toll if you use them all but are there any particularly processor hungry machines (synths) in the new releases?
2) Can the new mixer be used as a sub-mixer for a few machines and chained to the main mixer? Are they identical or is one more of a utility mixer?
3) Mic capture for sampling - Will this be built into the PCM Synth and Beatbox or have you created a recording interface of some sort whereby samples are recorded and edited and then saved to a 'samples' folder to be used in either machine?
4) I'm very interested in MIDI implementation.
Will it be possible to assign a MIDI channel to each machine?
Will it be possible to assign the same MIDI channel to two or more machines for layering of sounds? And if so will it be possible to control all the machines on the same midi channel from a single (master) machine's pattern editor without having to copy and paste the pattern to all machines?
Would love to get involved with the Alpha testing. Will this be on Windows only as it's just about getting future beta testers familiar with the new features or will you be releasing it on the various tablet platforms too?
Hi Rej, and everyone...
So Pan65 guessed Vocoder while I was sleeping. Oh well... I'm not sure I was gonna go there next anyway.
So much good news is overwhelming. Looks like I came back at the right time!!!
I actually was keeping an eye on the forum, but not much time to be on Caustic regularly... And then when I had a little time for it, it was like <<where was I again?>>. Since my bus rides used to be my main Caustic time, and I've been commuting on my bicycle since spring, I decided to dedicate my lunch brakes to Cautic... (so maybe 3 out 5 per week, to be realistic). Hopefully that works.
Regarding separate store app for synths, what you say makes sense, although my next question was about developing a plugin concept and allow other developers to create more synths... But I'm not asking that question now. To many new stuff to even discuss it...
Looking forward to the alpha 3.0...
It is amazing here I was thinking how amazing it would be to use six modular synths and that would have been like...
Now here I am shell shocked!
Or just about anything outside of the modular like the eight bit machine- yes please like Skarabeé said some help with the maths!
As they say in Spanish INCREIBLE!!!
ALpha hell yeah!!!
Count me in!
mjaiuus and good night... time to digest.
This is the time the night and the year
Wow, just wow! I never imagined any of this when I purchased a little app last summer :p Blown away by Rej's passion to raise the bar and excited by the future possibilities.
Count me in for testing but also happy to lend a hand, if wanted, when the manual is overhauled.
Awesome with a capital freakin' A! ;o)
As someone who loves creating sounds from scratch, I'm going to have a field day! I think I might have to give something up in order to have the time to play. Hmmm...work, family or sleep? ;o)
I'm in for the Alpha (and Beta) testing!
We've discussed in the past on the forum about delay and reverb settings (not just strength) being able to be set per mixer channel. Is that something that's going into 3.0 Rej?
Yeah, time and feedback would be kewl per machine. I know I have had many times when I wish the time of a bassline could be different than the lead to syncopate multi.
On another note...
I need to create a whole new preset section from scratch. Rej just screwed up my site module for this. Gonna have to think about how the site blocks work sooner than later.
Google Play Content Packs - https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Teoti+Graphix,+LLC
Surfing on Sine waves
Yeah, there will be a lot of different presets to host. Maybe you should consider a menu to chose from?
Rej, do you want your alpha testing on target hardware only?
I ask because I use Caustic on Playbook, rather than on an Android device, and it sounds like your design environment is not set up for Playbook at the moment. Are you considering releasing an alpha for Windows?
i almost had a heart attack when i read 14 tracks 10 synths...
my only real big request is being able to pan individual samples in the pcmsynth...that would be awsome.
I'm also kinda thinking that Rej may at some point want some presets for the new instruments and maybe even some demo tunes that highlight a particular synth or feature?
The learning curve is theoretically the same as Caustic 2 because you should just be able to pick it up and make a tune with the standard rack and presets that you can today BUT it will feel more complex because of all the extra racks, mixers etc
Can you show us a shot of the rear panel of the Vocoder please Rej?
Im standing by with sounds to make with the new synths already..... My work here is about to evolve... My SC and YT will soon light up with some sonic ear and eye candy.... Yumyum...
I am genuinely mind blown O_O those new synths look incredible! It's going to be that same "feeling" I got when I first got caustic, all that potential I never had before... but christ on a bike! 14 tracks! 10 synths?! Rej, you are incredible. I'm definitely in on the alpha testing too.
OK I've had a chance to calm down now....
...but I just can't! Was hoping for maybe a couple of extra slots and i'd read that a modular was coming but this is astounding. My only worry now is that I'll be way out of my comfort zone- I'm too old and stupid for taking in too much new stuff
I'm with you on that one - thinking I may take it slowly, maybe try a synth per week until I'm a little more comfortable but, still can't wait to get my hands on the new toys
This is like my son getting a bag of candy bars and meticulously planning to eat them over a span of two weeks.... YEAH RIGHT
I'm thinking it may be a good excuse to treat myself to a 10" tablet I'm sure my GF will understand *cough*
Naaaahhhhh.... Come on guys, you'll be soon crying that you're tired of being bogged down by 14 slots and 10 machines, and you'll want more..... thus the Builderz Project to fix your cares and woes ha ha ha ha ha
Well the amount of programming I have todo with the core to get all this new synth stuff in, not to mention the OSC for the modular is nice and "easy".
With this update, I think Rej has more than doubled the OSC API.
CausticLive will support the 14 rack slots and 10 synths though.
Good morning all, glad to see I'm not the only one that's excited about how big this is going to be (and I can finally share my excitement!)
I'll try to address the questions that have been raised so far in one reply rather than pepper the thread with embedded replies.
@pablo64: There is no "rear" to the vocoder, everything is set up in the front. You can use it in 3 ways. It has a built-in "2.5-Osc" synth (detunable saw / square + sub osc.) you can use as the carrier (the part that makes the notes you play), but you can also choose any other machine as the carrier if the built-in synth doesn't get you the sound you want. For the modulator (the "speech" sound that the notes follow), you have 6 slots you can assign to. You can either load up WAV samples, or use another machine's output as the mod source. (drums for example make a cool modulation source). If you use an external synth as the carrier and another external synth as the modulator, you've effectively turned the Vocoder into an insert effect! (See why this one required more machine slots...you'd be getting one audio track out of 3 machines)
Which brings me to your other set of questions (good ones btw)
1) CPU: This will be the achilles heel and I'm already bracing for bad reviews, I'm giving you plenty of leverage to bring your mobile device to its knees. 14 slots is the the limit, but there is not garantee your device will be able to handle it. There are too many variables that come into play to determine the CPU load. Each synth/insert fx has a different load and then polyphony counts towards that as well. As to which synths are the most expensive.. Well it mostly depends on polyphony but FM/Vocoder/Organ are quite expensive. Then the modular, even with its mono voice, can be really expensive if you've got lots of cpu-intensive components in it (like oscillators and filters). So you see it really will depend, the CPU load meter will be your friend/enemy. Personally, I can't create a song with more than 8 machines running at the same time without it getting completely messy and impossible to mix cleanly. I'm hoping people will use the extra slots as different parts that won't necessarily play at the same time in a song. We'll see, but I've been optimizing like mad and I can run 8 machines (including one heavy modular lead preset) on my old 1GHz Nexus One and still only hit 50%
2) Mixers. I'll post up some more screnshots after this post so you can see, but basically imagine the master section of the 2.1 mixer being gone and replaced by a 7th channel (i know, 7 is weird but 8 didn't fit). If you add a machine to slots 8-14, the app will add another mixer and fx section that are exactly the same. The master section is now another screen with a few extra goodies (see screenshots)
3) Microphone: Every synth that makes use of samples will get an interface to the common WAV editor, which is also where recording takes place. For the PCMSynth, this will be a long-press on the "Level" button. For the Beatbox, it will be in the "kit settings" menu. On the vocoder, it's a button on the front of the machine (the ugly little hand-drawn waveform squiggle).
4) Unfortunately, no MIDI improvements just yet. I've got some things half-done like Skarabee's prototype CC mappings, but if I promise that too (for all these new synths), I'm down for another 3-4 weeks. I think this will come in C3.1
You also asked about Mobile vs Windows for testing, I think it will be both when it's ready.
@Mike: OSC, Some of it is done (modular) some just needs hooking up the control names, and yes you're fine to start building and offering the 14 slots
@Skarabee: Programming the 8bitsynth is not a question of being good at math, there aren't any easy rules to follow. It's really all about exploring and anyone can do that. But I understand this machine will create a division (like the modular) of those who want to program it and those who just want tons of presets. So I'll be calling on those of you who fall into the former group to help out the latter be submitting tons of presets when the time comes.
@Wardini: Yes, Vocality + Vocoder IS awesome , but also, because the vocoder strips out any tuning from the modulator, you can easily record yourself talking or singing and it doesn't matter if you're out of tune. The carrier generates the melody. I can't wait to make the demo video for this. It's not Antares Auto-tune (the "T-Pain effect"), as this would be equivalent to ~512 bands and this uses only 8, it's more like the robotic Daft-Punk sounds or the old "Transformers" theme. (just added an audio example in a post below)
@Bojeroo: Reverb and Delay are now available as inserts so you can go crazy with different rates and settings. I've also added the awesome "dotted 8ths" rate to the delay, which I should have done ages ago. It's the default setting now.
@Mike re: Presets page. Yup, we need a solution that scales. I have no idea what that is though, you can discuss it with users here if you want or if you've got something in mind already, let me know.
@Spinneysc: Playbook. The main problem with Blackberry device is that Playbook and BB10 run of VERY similar OSes, but the tools haven't been merged AFAIK. It's something I need to do anyway, but I'll probably be testing on Playbook first. If you're set up to sideload .BAR files let me know and I can include you in on testing.
@danjdob: No panning of PCMSynth samples yet. It's on the list to get done very soon, but didn't make the cut for the .0 release. I'm thinking something simple like long-press the "Tune" button changes the mode to panning per-sample. The tricky part is this will turn the PCM into a stereo output machine and I need to make sure old song mix exactly the same.
@Bidripibait: Yes, part of what I'll need for this release is demo material. I'd like to make the promo video show off different styles rather than just the techno I've had previously, so think of a longer video with cuts instead of a continuous track. More on that when we can there. This is also why I'm hesitant to create a demo album of songs for release right now. It would be weird if all the demo songs released all stopped at 6 machines for some reason (to the new user). I'd like to pospone the project until people get comfortable with this new version and then REALLY show it off via demo content.
Hopefully I haven't missed anything, if so, just post them again. I'll get some screenshots of the mixer + master now.
First, this is the new machine layout screen. You add machines by touching empty slots, remove them by dragging onto the delete bar. You can re-arrange the order of machines by dragging them around. You can also now replace or "recycle" machines. This is useful when you have set up a few patterns or maybe even a full song with one machine but you'd like to try a different sound for that part. Replacing changes the machine, but keeps all patterns and song data intact (but not the machine's automation obviously)
Next up are the new mixers. Mostly the same as before, but now there's a 7th line. The second mixer and effects rack only show up when you place a machine in slots 8-14. So for new users, it isn't any more complicated than before.
Underneath the mixers is the new master section. Delay & Reverb get extra goodies, and there's a built-in brick-wall limiter right before the output to stop stray peaks and help stop clipping. You can see the two inserts slots on the bottom left. Those are the same inserts you previously placed in the effects rack on the master track. The 3-band EQ gets a little graph to show you what it's doing and you can tweak the crossover frequencies.
I can't resist posting this old Vocoder test from January I made to show Mike, it's just me speaking the theme from transformers, with a simple melody played on the keyboard. I should note that my voice was recorded and not played live. Android, latency.. you know the drill.
First the actual input:
Then the result when vocoded:
Rej ---- I don't know what to say...... but you have been a major busy bee. the Master FX section which automatically has a Master Tone-Shaping EQ and Master Comp, and Master Limiter (yes yes yes!!!!) as well as massive control over Delay and Reverb..... This will shoot the app so far ahead of the game its insane.
As to the CPU load for many many machines..... yes, you are right, some people with less-powerful devices may whine about it, BUT -- when composing music with many elements (for example an symphonic orchestra...) not all machines or instruments are going to be jamming all at once, that wiould make a song too busy and very redundant and fatiguing very quickly.... a smart arranger or composer will use the variety of instruments and sounds, and tastefully spread them out, to keep the listener interested.
If one wants to really push it to the limit, go buy a newer more powerful device.... so that's good for the hardware market.
I am very excited to test this out --- but this time around, I will be focusing my energy more on the Synths themselves and what I can squeeze out of them, as well as seriously analysing effects and Master DSP---- I'm very very curious about that.
This Caustic Warrior is loaded n' locked and ready for battle...
Well Jason, the two effects you see in the bottom left (ParamEQ and Compressor ) are just inserts. Same as before, just in a different spot The only new addition is the limiter, but it's quite dramatic in how it can help with mastering.
I know you would have hoped for a multi-channel Compr, but in my testing, this brought about a pretty high CPU cost, one that most users probably wouldn't make use of and that they'd be paying for anyway. Sorry.
Everything had been won before I even saw this post. I'd have guessed vocoder. Looks like everyone's a winner :-)
OK. New inserts. Delay, reverb and multi mode filter?
So if I alpha, can I still use 2.1?
Edit. And by the time I'd posted this, more stuff had come.Sorry. Slow connection tonight
Hey, it's no problem about the Multi-Band Comp..... We survived decades of quality recordings with Single-Band Comps/Limits.... I've got my bag of tricks to maximise my content with what's available in there now....
Question..... has the tone of the Reverb changed, as I see that you've included a ton of parameters for it?
Also.... In the course of my testing.... would you be ok if I show some of it via YT? At least the good stuff, how it looks and sounds (sans the bugs if they pop up of course)???
New insert effects:
You'll notice the absence of Trance Gate, I think you'll be able to pull off the same effect via pattern automation, so I cut it.
you'll be able to Alpha 2.1 and 3.0 on PC side by side, but not on mobile. I'd have to gave the app a different package name and change it in so many places, I'd probably forget one when changing it back. Too risky. You can always opt-in when it gets to Beta, the app should be better suited to acutally making songs by then.
The reverb has changed a bit, mostly small quality improvements like pre-delay for better simulation of large spaces, a diffuser (smooths out spikes like drum hits), early reflections, and dithering. Still no separate-channel stereo, this was another one that drove the CPU cost too much when testing. I swear I tried.
But as a peace offering, you'll notice the mixer has its Width knobs centered... you can delay either side now.
LOL Rej, you got me there..... It's liveable about the Reverb..... and I understand CPU issues, especially with the tradeoff of bumping up rack spaces..... But if Reverb Knobs are automateable as before, I already have in my head an idea how to "fake" it to get a cool stereo effect with the reverb features I see in your screenshot, I've done before with other hardware workstations before...
Width-centered-knobs = coolness..... I'll showcase that too..... if you're ok with my showing off some cool tricks with the new Synths and Mixer Features via YT video.....
We'll talk more when we get there. I'm a bit anxious about putting public images of the Alpha build as things could still change, I don't want to be locked into promises.
Understood..... Maybe I'll SC some cool sounds I discover then.... if that's ok.....
Wow, this update looks amazing. Pretty stoked to try out all of these new tools!
Bowing down bowing down bowing down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HUGE HUGE HUGE!!!!! hatf off hats offf!!! Not fair you'r are now definetly making me dig inside the Caustic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANKS A TON REJ!!!! Mouth is watering!!!
Look at those sounds!!!
Rej i was really thinking back in my mind that wish a limiter gets added for mastering a week ago while i was working on a track! Thanks again!
So, I fully understand now about the demo compilation. Of course, it's better to wait for a Caustic 3 demo album.
Yes! comb filter, static flanger, Cab sim, Multi filter...good stuff for guitar sounds (but not only). By the way, are the previous chorus/flanger/phaser still mono?
I guess the vinyl simulator will add some scratches/noise/rumble. With a timeline knob like the old vinylizer for Cubase (from 1930 to 2000)?
The new master section and the enhanced delay and reverb modules are great additions too. And I didn't mention the pattern automation, wave editor and midi import. This new Caustic will be a game changer.
Thumbs up for Rej!
I think i need some days to grasp these new additions!!!!!!!!! Literally jumped up my screen when saw the Padsynth... reading the algorithm you linked!
i just hope my tablet's Cpu is able to bear all this! Fingers crossed!
Wow, I thought yesterday's announcements were jaw dropping, and so much more info has been posted today! Loving the new mastering section and I wasn't even aware a bunch of new insert effect were on the cards! (I'm assuming it's still 2 insert effects per track for CPU reasons?)
This update is HUGE, you must be so busy Rej. I would love to be a part of the Alpha testing stage, hoping my Nexus 7 has enough grunt to put all these new features to the test!
HA I was just thinking this! And then you post the track example.
Ah yeay Rej, I think the question was asked about whether Windows was going to be offered to tesxt on as well, or are you just testing APK device targets.
For me a windows version would be great, not only with the OSC stuff but I can help make presets or whatever easier while testing the core app functionality. Plus getting somce content togehter for the "other" stuff I am working on.
I can’t see for all the tears in my eyes. All these new machines and mastering tools will be a new kickstart for me. So much to explore, so much to learn. I will never have to compromise with my caustic songs again. I think I’ll have a look at those android-pads to see if anyone will suit my needs, does anyone know which one work best with caustic?
And for alpha testing, I would love to provide a collection of presets for the official release.
Thanks, Rej, for the great announcements! End of last week, I just thought about the various new improvements discussed the last half year and the nice hints and screenshots you gave us so far. Nearly everything seems to get into this small app.
Then, since yesterday, I'm totally overwhelmed. Four brand-new machines come in addition to the "modular" and the drawbar synthesizer, 14 tracks are supported, and a new mastering section is already made! There will be much work to test and debug the software and to add documentation and tutorials. But at the end, the best android app will become the most best app.
Now, I cool down a bit, and would like to ask some questions...
1. Let's begin with the "missing" things. I think, the 3/4 time signature will be a challenge for a future release. (But this would not be such a big drawback for me.)
2. There were some prototype screenshots about grid choice and note-length change. Will these features be included in release 3.0?
3. There were some screenshots about the Subsynth (unisono, two wave-forms, etc.) Is this ready to deliver or was this just some prototypical work?
4. There were some screenshots about new (stereo?) features in some insert effects. Is this ready to deliver or was this just some prototypical work?
5. I'm a little bit afraid that the new app might not run well on my "old" Galaxy Note. If the features are interesting and the new release will be stable, I could afford to buy a new Ultrabook (and an USB midi keyboard). But would it be possible to "freeze" the latest 2.1.x version, such you can get and install both from Google Play? I mean it a bit similar to BSPlayer, where you can install and use the light version and the (paid) pro version. So, if Caustic 3.0 too often runs out of power on the phone, you could revert to the - already mighty - 2.1 release. (Just an idea.)
Just back to my computer so I'll answer some of the new questions.
@DanSeb: Still two inserts per machine. I get a feeling this will become the new "top" requested feature, but I'm happy to wait a bit still.
1) It's still one the todo list, the pattern editor should be pretty solid by this release so it will be better suited to accomodate different length patterns (beats rather than bars)
2) Yes, I've removed the "pattern options" screen (which I've always hated) and replaced all of its features with things you can do without leaving the pattern view. Setting a pattern to 8 bars is just two clicks and it's easy to bounce back and forth from 16ths, 64th, full 8-bar "zoomed out" view, etc. The transpose and shift controls will temporarily show up where the pattern/bank buttons are now so you can see what you're doing as you move things. Growing a placed note will just be a matter of dragging the note length button temporarily instead of toggling draw mode back and forth. (which you can still do if you prefer)
3) The new subsynth features I showed a few weeks ago are working and will be in 3.0
4) No that's been working well for some time so you'll get that in 3.0 as well. Stereo options for Chorus and Flanger. Plus low-high freq range control for the Phaser.
5) It still runs surprisingly well on my Nexus One, which is probably 2 years older than your Note so I wouldn't be too worried.
Is there a device out there today that can run 14 vocoders with stereo chorus and phaser on each? not sure.
Can a old 1GHz phone run a mix of 14 machines if they're not all playing at once? yes.
I know we all like to have excuses to upgrade our devices, but I'm really not sure this is it honestly. I predict 90% of people will get to an unmanagable mess of audio before they can run 14 machines at the same time in a song and have it sound nice..
Just wait a little longer and you can test for yourself. I can't stand going back to 2.1 now that I've been playing around with this for a while. I can always put up a "dead-end" version of the 2.1 APK after release if you're worried, but I need to have this new version continue as the same app or no one will know to upgrade.
Thanks for the new screen shots of the mixer and machine layout Rej. (wow!!!!!!!!!!)
"This will be the Achilles heel and I'm already bracing for bad reviews"
I don't think it would be realistic for this to be a viable reason for bad reviews. (but I know what you mean) Pro Tools, Logic, Cakewalk Cubase etc. advertise a certain number of simultaneous tracks and it is always followed with:
*depending on hardware.
Probably just putting something like:
Up to 14 tracks depending on available hardware
in the play store description would help . But I don't know if that is the best wording.
IIRC The number of tracks available on an iPAD with garageband was 8 in 2011, and I don't think it has changed. Even with the faster processors on iPAD 4 it’s kept @ eight. Plus even if you have a slower device, like Rej says, you don't have to (or probably want to) run 'em all at the same time. it could be used as a way to 'switch sounds' or 'change effects' during a song. this is where the recycle/replace feature will make a lot of sense for new users.
Guess your right Wardini but I’m afraid some people don’t even care for reading descriptions. It is easier and quicker to just download and then decide if the app is useful or not. I don’t know if Rej ever transate the commeants he get on GPS but here’s one from a Swedish user who prefer to be anonymous…
Iden är toppen med en mobil produceringsplatform och programmet känns högklassigt kodad även om softsyntharna saknar en del essensiella funktioner.”
Here’s my translation…
The idea with a mobile production-platform is great and the app seams to be well coded but the softsynths lacks some essential functions.”
Well it may not look that bad but the headline is the first thing you see when you browse through the comments. I wonder if that guy thought the app would turn his phone into a fully featured high-end computer.
You know all people can't have common sense or even intelligence.
Also note, don't forget that a lot of those comments come from humans that just graduated diapers and can't even legally drive a car or for that matter understand what the significance of a right triangle is.
Hmm, the words this guy use and the spelling makes me think of him as an adult with enough intelligence to realize that his device got some limitations. But your right, most comments comes from kids who think it’s fun to write abusive comments. YouTube is full of these awful comments.
how about an "undo" function? Even just 1 level of undo...
I find myself wishing for an undo button when something gets messed for some unplanned reason, like the bus I'm on makes a sharp turn I didn't see coming... Usually I'm in the pattern editor when that happens.
Probably more complicated to implement than I think it is.
NetC, I agree that some people would be improved if they came with an undo function :p
Ha ha, I totally agreed